nonTT

#1

January 13th, 2009, 12:07 PM

Holy crap!

Original story is here.

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#2

January 13th, 2009, 01:28 PM

China, how did I guess without even seeing the picture or reading the article?

And don't call me racist. I'm being honest about a culture who has given me the means to make educated guesses that end up being RIGHT!

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#3

January 13th, 2009, 03:09 PM

Well, at least in America. Teachers can duck tape students legs to chairs!

Boy Duct-Taped To Desk; Teacher Suspended - Jacksonville News Story - WJXT Jacksonville

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#4

January 13th, 2009, 03:23 PM

That's exactly what I'm talking about! Some people are just so stupid and need to exercise power whenever they can.

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#5

January 13th, 2009, 10:22 PM

I bet his parents didn't even get mad at that teacher. In Asia, this is a "culturally" accepted thing. There's even a saying in Turkish which literally translates to "From each spot a teacher has struck, a rose blossoms". In my case, bruises would blossom, but never mind. I remember once being hospitalized b/c of what my 4th grade teacher did to me. As usual, he was checking the homeworks in the morning (if one kid hadn't done it, the entire class would be beaten for it) and that friggin' morning I had forgotten to do my homework. I mean, big deal! Well, my teacher went ape-shit, he actually picked up a yule log from the heater in the corner, and struck me on the head. It ripped a huge gash on my head, and I started bleeding really badly. Blood started running down my face, and I got dizzy. They sent me to the hospital, and stitched my head close. Of course, nothing was done to the teacher, b/c as I said, it's culturally acceptable to do this. So my mother changed our school instead. Fun times, fuuuuun times.

Ra,

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"It contradicts my opinions and therefore I believe it to be a load of bullsh*t." - NKP

"And as for the Santa thing, I find that kind of funny. Scott will be 40 this month and he still, seriously, believes in Santa. Granted, he is mentally disabled, but hes an adult so I just kind of find it funny that you use that as a reference." - Charleene

#6

January 13th, 2009, 10:41 PM

Man, I dont care what country it is, it shouldnt be acceptable anywhere. Culture has nothing to do with how you treat a child in my opinion, regardless of what the "traditional" way of handling things is. Even if this was an "accident", there is no excuse for it happening. Is it her responsibility to discipline the child because he didnt do his homework? No, its his parents, she could call them, but instead took it into her own hands.

That poor kid, I hope they sue, for buttloads of money and I hope they win. Maybe this kid can get some retail therapy out of what happened at least.

#7

January 13th, 2009, 10:59 PM

What. The. Hell.
That's not morally right.
I don't care if it's accepted. It's not right.

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#8

January 14th, 2009, 11:06 AM

Personally I don't understand the motivation to WANT to injure a child, right or not, acceptable or not. Even if I was a teacher in China or Turkey, I couldn't do that! Then again, I might get complaints from parents for being "too soft".

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#9

January 14th, 2009, 02:44 PM

I know it's not acceptable to us. But it is acceptable in China.

Culture has everything to do with it - including how they treat children and how children should respect Adults. It's totally different.

In China it is the teacher's responsibility to punish the child for something he has done (that is education related).
She didn't take matters into her own hands - she did her job.
Because strict discipline is part of her responsiblities as a teacher in China.

It's terrible to see a kid maimed like that - and I agree that it should never go that far, but because we have such a different attitude and approach to this way of life we can't really begin to judge or condemn something we don't really have any experience of or understand.

*shrugs* I don't support this behaviour in the least but I can see how it might happen in a country with such a different culture from our own.
(That, and growing up with a Chinese mother)

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#10

January 14th, 2009, 03:41 PM

Speaking of mothers...

I grew up in a very strict Japanese household, and my mom carried over all the customs and expectations from Yokosuka, Japan. She had no qualms about striking me (though she could never hit very hard, skinny Asian )*, but felt that no one else had the right to. The crazy thing was, she became less and less strict as exposure to American culture caused her to absorb some... compassion? She's still extremely strict though, especially with her stepchildren who spend half their time in an American household, and the other half with my mother in her household.

Now she feels bad for how she used to be when I was younger. I guess a healthy dose of American wussification helps to sand down some of these overly-abrasive (abusive) cultures. I don't mind so much, though, since she was never a hard hitter (I still giggle about that), but what if she had been?

*EDIT: Oops, I shouldn't laugh. Because of her, I'm a skinny halfie who can't hit hard.

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#11

January 15th, 2009, 09:08 PM

Charleene, as TamaMum says, culture has everything to do with it. Your views are based on Western understanding, and in the Western culture, children are sacred beings. We in the Western world have turned children into demi-gods which we worship. In the Eastern part of the world, this isn't the case. It absolutely is the teacher's job and responsibility to discipline the children. And through the cultural understanding, it is also expected of them to do that by any means necessary. I remember going home in tears many times, complaining how my teacher had beaten me, only to be told by my parents that I must have deserved it.

Ra,

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"Touched by his noodly appendage."

"It contradicts my opinions and therefore I believe it to be a load of bullsh*t." - NKP

"And as for the Santa thing, I find that kind of funny. Scott will be 40 this month and he still, seriously, believes in Santa. Granted, he is mentally disabled, but hes an adult so I just kind of find it funny that you use that as a reference." - Charleene

#12

January 16th, 2009, 12:11 AM

Ok, I must not of been clear enough when I said it was MY opinion lol I PERSONALLY dont think it should be acceptable in any country and that the teacher has no right to discipline the children in her class in such a manner.

I understand that THEY think it is acceptable, and alot of people follow along with that belief, but I do not. Any person that I associate with would say the same thing lol. It may be the western way of things, but I like it this way. I think that they need to re-evaluate the way they treat the kids over there. Kids are not demi-gods Ra lol I dont know anyone that puts them on that kind of pedestal but I do think that they deserve love, kindness, and compassion like the rest of us, not to mention a little understanding and forgiveness now and then. Kids are kids, they make mistakes, its part of growing up, but to be beaten for an honest mistake? Thats just wrong. Thats like beating the crap out of a 4 year old for wetting the bed when he had a bad dream. Thats how I see it at least.

#13

January 16th, 2009, 02:16 AM

I can completely understand spanking a child for not doing homework, but to make another person bleed for something like that, in my eyes is extremely wrong.
Even if I was brought up in that culture, and became a teacher, I don't think I could ever bring myself to harm someone that badly for not doing homework.

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#14

January 16th, 2009, 08:07 AM

I don't think the teacher intended to rip the boys cheek. She was disciplining him and she let it get out of hand. She was clearly in the wrong. (I don't think any of us dispute that).
But if you were brought up in that culture and became a teacher you would not see it as being wrong to be extremely strict and disciplinarian towards your pupils. You would see it as part of your duty and your responsibility as a professional.

But there is a cultural divide on things like this which is hard to explain. I don't even pretend to understand it all. I'm just drawing on experience and knowledge gained from my own childhood. I'll try to explain a little more, as best I can.

From the Chinese teacher's point of view it is not an honest mistake (don't forget that the child knows this, just as well as the teacher and the parents).
He was given homework and it was his responsibility to complete it. He did not.
That is not an honest mistake. It is considered lazy and very disrespectful to your teacher and setting the course for a bad reputation as a student (thus also shaming your parents).
Chinese school children don't accidentally "forget" to do their homework. That's not part of the way they are taught in schools, nor is it the way they are brought up at home. It is part of the culture they grow up with and, I think, that is why we find it difficult to fully understand.

A child can't prevent themselves wetting the bed in their sleep (although my mother's solution to that would simply have been to stop me drinking anything about 2 hours before sleep... every night, until it stopped).
A child can remember to do homework if they are taught to remember. If they make a mistake, they are punished (too severely in this particular case), but it helps them remember to do their homework next time.

I believe that the reason this approach doesn't work in the West is that broadly speaking, Western children know they can use all manner of excuses to avoid doing homework before they are "threatened" with anything that will incentivise them to actually do some work. Actually, they are rarely threatened at all. They either choose to work or choose to fail.
Chinese children would not consider failure an option. It is shameful and leaves no self respect.
Actually, I'm going to guess that many Chinese can't understand why Westerners allow their kids to fail
... how does that old Chinese proverb go? It is not a failure to fall down, but it is a failure to refuse to get up again.

Let's face it, we all see (too often) some example or complaint about why a child thinks it is not their fault and how it is their parents fault (or a special behavioural condition) that they act the way they do...

meh... post too long (but it's a complicated subject and too weighty for these forums)...

The point is we all condemn what happened to that boy.
I suppose I probably view things from a different angle and therefore judge them in a different way.

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#15

January 16th, 2009, 08:28 AM

I agree with this. I wasn't threatened at all. But some teachers I had did better things to encourage kids to do homework. My grade 6 teacher Mrs. Terdik was the best. If you completed your homework, and put it in your folder that we had completed the night before, we could choose from an assortment of treats like stuff she baked, or she used to get tons of tese candy suckers on sale that were SO good, everyone loved them ^_^. If you weren't into that kind of thing then even with homework completed and without a treat she'd be a lot easier on you than if you didn't complete it. Example of this is if me and another person I hung out with sometimes got our homework done and our inclasswork done early during class, then we could chill outside in the halls, eat some snacks and just larf around as long as we didn't disturb the other classes.

Obviously 2-4 times of not getting it done as well as any other behaviour during classwould get a call home (especially if a test is coming up and stuff)you'd get sent to the office THEN get a call home (depends on how difficult a student was). You could tell how she handled the class...she loved teaching and helping us learn. She was very firm, but very fair. As long as you try your best and get all yor work done she was very leinent on you. She was great with my virtual pets too when I had them with me She always asked about them and wanted to see. *sigh* I wish more teachers here had her approach. She was one of the only decent teachers there that made my life in school bareable.

My guess though for the few over there in that culture, encouragement and extra privledges would be considered making a child "soft". I mean my teacher then was strict and was very blunt with you if you decided to slack off. As long as you do what you're supposed to, the praise should be just as powerful as it would the discipline. Again I do not condone that other teacher's decision...but the kid should of gotten his work done.

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